What would happen if you ban guns?

Drop knives, Harry Potter actor’s family pleads

THE grief-stricken parents of the Harry Potter actor stabbed to death outside a London bar yesterday made a TV plea for youths to stop carrying knives.

Robert Knox’s father warned: “With knives there are no winners, only losers.”

“If you are a person who carries a knife, think about the consequences and, for my son’s sake, don’t do it,” Colin Knox said.

Rob had just finished work on Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, due out in November.

He had a minor role as student wizard Marcus Belby, but was to appear in the next Potter film.

His parents said they hoped their son’s fame would focus attention on London’s worsening knife culture.

Mr Knox, 55, who works in media production, said: “If it serves that purpose, then Robert will have done something else exceptional.”

You can ban guns, but you’ll just have people getting killed by some other method. Look at the Middle East, you can get stoned to death over there. South Africa? I hear getting ‘necklaced’ is back in style. What is ‘necklaced’? Basically, someone puts a tire around your neck and fills the inside with a flammable liquid and sets it afire. Cool, eh?

It’s always sad to see a kid with a future dying. I grew up with a kid that got into a fight and fell down and hit his head and ended up dying. It was accidental but it’s still sad. Even though the guy was a jerk, it’s just not the way or time to go.

23 Responses to What would happen if you ban guns?

  1. Gawfer says:

    coincidentally, I left a comment at kris’ blog the other day emplying the same idea. Guns are banned in England, so people carry knives, and PCs wear ‘Stab Vests’. When they bann knives, the PCs will be wearing ‘Chop-Stick vests’ or a reppelent for whatever the popular weapon becomes.

    Weapons don’t kill people; people kill people.

    BTW, where do you live now? I worked on the North Slope for about 4 months, and visited my cousins in Anchorage for a required R&R. Stayed in Fairbanks for a few days as well.

  2. frznagn says:

    I’m in Anchorage, East side. Let me know the next time you’re up here. What did you think of Fairbanks? I’ve been there a couple of times. Either I missed all the excitement or there just isn’t much up there to do.

    North Slope, eh? Nothing to do up there but work. I’ve been here since ’95 or so and I still haven’t gone to Denali Park, or Kodiak Island. One of these days I’ll make it to some of the nice places like those.

    “Weapons don’t kill people; people kill people.”

    Hmm, what about “People don’t kill people, Liberals kill people.”?

    Kinda joking, but I’d like to see stats on the political affiliations of the murderers, rapists and such.

  3. Gawfer says:

    When the Exxon Valdez (sp) ran aground, a position with the USFS opened up and my cousin was selected to fill it. Her job was to analyze the damage and allocate funds for reparations.

    After she completed her specific task, she and her husband moved to Cordoba Island and opened a charter fishing business that didn’t generate as much revenue as anticipated. So they moved back to Anchorage and seem to be quite happy now. While on R&R, she took me down to Portage Glacier, and we drove around a bit. Her husband Jim’s contribution was taking me to The Great Alaska Bush Company… ahem.

    While in Fairbanks, we stayed at the Polaris Hotel for a few nights, and wandered around the town… in -50° weather… once. I’ve done smarter things in my life. The second night there, a very large Inuit woman who had a master key to the hotel rooms decided to pay a visit to my bud and was most willing to ‘service’ him for a mere $20.00. Seems the natives aren’t highly motivated to work with their state sponsored stipend.

    We currently have no plans to visit anytime soon, but it’s always a kick to meet fellow bloggers. If we get up there, I’ll let you know.

  4. frznagn says:


    Shouldn’t that be Cordova?

    The Bush Co. Lol! Everybody has to visit it! I’ve only been there a few times. Honest.

    “Seems the natives aren’t highly motivated to work with their state sponsored stipend.”

    Some are quite motivated. But too many just are content with sucking off their Native Corp. Dividends/Alaska PFD’s and other government aid. That’s why I’m against handouts versus a hand up. They do get free health care here too. Some folks are quite ‘racist’ towards them. I don’t think most of it is truly ‘racism’ as much as it is one group getting more freebies than another from the government.

  5. Gawfer says:

    OK,OK, look at the ‘b’ and the ‘v’ on your keyboard, and then cut me some slack. I’m missing a digit on my left had, LOL!
    A few times at the Bush Company?! Men, you’re a high roller! It cost me over $200 bucks when I was there… uh… never mind

  6. frznagn says:

    Ok, your slack is cut. I didn’t know if it was a typo or just you had the name wrong. Forgot about that missing digit, doh!

    I’ve only gone when someone has dragged me there. My wife doesn’t approve of it and I’m not much of a window shopper. Lookie, no touchie! It just doesn’t seem fair, you know what I mean?

    Anyways, have you spent much time over at KayInsanes place? They are the most dense people I’ve ever encountered. They talk about how much they support the troops, but a vet like me gets no respect. Odd, eh? The only vets they seem to support are the ones that have turned to the dark side. The last two posts I made were even deleted. I guess they don’t like losing an argument!!! Such amazing behavior from the ‘free speech’ crowd. I need to make a post about my experience. Something akin to Jane Goodall studying the apes.

  7. Gawfer says:

    I don’t have much of a stomach for Kay. the only time I commented there was her post about troops being killed, and her son got a day off from school and she cheered for both.

    I don’t have much use for a person that despises us veterans. I’d suggest writing a comment, posting it, copy to PDF the comments, then when she deletes it, copy again and then create a post about the free speech advocates censoring free speech, LOL!

  8. frznagn says:

    I thought about re-posting too. I tried to get her to comment on a couple of things but she let her goon ‘Clif’ monopolize the commenting. She just jumped in to high-five Clif. Classy lady, eh? I’d just like to know why these moonbats can’t seem to answer a question. Are they afraid of the truth or what? Every now and then I’m wrong about something and when I find out about it, I’ll admit it. That seems to be a trait that these moonbats don’t have.

    Name calling, distractions, hypocrisy, double-standards…. the list goes on like the energizer Bunny. Oh, and analogies too. Unless you have it nailed perfectly, they won’t understand the meaning. Even though the average fifth grader could catch the meaning, it won’t matter. It’ll just be a way to distract from your point.

    I think Kay couldn’t take it that I quoted Ann Coulter too. I’m really not a fan of hers, but she does have a few good points. And I’m fair enough to look at a lefty that I don’t like and admit if they have good points too. Lefties like Kay can only agree with fellow lefties. Talk about being closed minded!

    And I learned if you have two ‘masters degrees’, then it’s ok to be a complete asshat. Talk about being arrogant! No wonder they’re voting for Obama. What is it about that guy that attracts losers? Really, his pastors, Ayers, Kayinmaine…. Sheesh!

  9. Gawfer says:

    I have come to the conclusion that being ‘Liberal’ means one does not have to follow any rules, whether governmental or ethical.

    One can behave as one chooses; the ultimate freedom of anarchy and insanity. In reality, it is only an excuse that they use to justify living without self control. It is the sexual revolution of the 60’s and 70’s personified in aging adults that didn’t succumb to AIDs. They resemble grade school children who are unable to rationalize and solve word problems. they lash out verbally, and occasionally physically, they cannot stand up to criticism and constantly argue from emotional positions.

    They have never matured into adulthood.

  10. frznagn says:

    “No, let’s just cut to the chase and hand out guns. So much more efficient, don’t you think?”

    Me thinks you have the concept of ‘banning’ and ‘efficiency’ confused. Try Wiki or Websters.

    “I mean, nu’cler bombs are so much more efficient than all that messy combat, so why are they prohibited?”

    Nuclear bombs can be more ‘effective’, not more ‘efficient’. Residual radiation isn’t very efficient.

    “But for God’s sake don’t give ‘em guns – God doesn’t have the space.”

    Are you sure? Go find out and then tell me. Hehe, just kidding. Funny tho.

  11. frznagn says:

    “that is to say, they are more efficient.”

    Give it a rest already. Doing something FASTER does not make it more EFFICIENT!

    I can give you a 15 second haircut but would it be more efficient? I thinks not!

    What? It takes you 5 minutes to smoke a cigarette? Do it in 10 seconds and it’ll be more efficient! And just how will those results work out? Thought so.

    “And BTW, that ‘residual radiation’ thang doesn’t seem to be bothering the Penatgon any ¬– the desert sands are alive with the sound of exploding depleted uranium munitions.”

    Of course not. That’s over there!

    “Yes. Ever been to England?”

    Actually, no. But what does England have to do with Heaven?

  12. frznagn says:

    “I am well aware that doing something faster does necessarily not make it more efficient, but I am amused to hear this coming from a self-confessed conservative.”

    Good, now we agree. Just because I believe we should be fiscally conservative it doesn’t mean I believe we should outsource everything. Some things are beneficial but not all. I prefer to buy goods made here, or by our closest neighbors & allies.

    “Generations of ragheads completely buggered!”

    Sometimes you really do take great leaps of logic and/or assumption. While this may be work for some of those wingnuts you deal with, it probably won’t work well with me. I like to be different and think for myself.

    Better, but how do you know how much space he has?

    For someone who likes to write a lot, your blog is lacking in regular posting.

  13. frznagn says:

    “So at what point should the outsourcing stop?”

    Good question. I suppose each commodity has a different breaking point. But the bigger question is, who controls the distribution of these resources/products? I don’t trust my, or any other, government to make the best decisions. Do you?

    “But what, according to you, is ‘fiscal conservatism’? How do you define it? I mean, you sound like a bit of a protectionist.”

    I don’t have a great definition for you. Lets just say we use the term loosely. I may be a tad ‘protectionist’ but that’s because I grew up in the Detroit area in the 70’s. I didn’t like seeing our automobile industry tank, or the large numbers of unemployed, or the neighborhoods deteriorate. It’s not a pretty sight. My father was a County Sheriff, and the county didn’t have enough money to pay their salaries. He couldn’t quit, so he had to work for free. Does that sound like a good situation to you? Is this something you would like? Sure, the Big Three has plenty of blame for it, but it doesn’t mean I have to like it.

    “am I wrong to assume that the object of the War On Terror™ is to wipe out militant Islam?”

    You could take it that way. I don’t. ‘Militant Islam’ is a debatable term. Some consider all Islam to be militant. I’m sure you can find Islamic Militants in many countries that we have no troops in. Does it mean we’ll be putting troops in them next? I doubt it. It wouldn’t have been that bad of a situation if we just kept out of Iraq, but since we did go in there, we sort of attracted them into the region. I don’t believe fighting militant Islam was a goal until we went into Iraq.

    “Perhaps we discuss things without slipping into the personal abuse so common elsewhere?”

    I hope we can avoid the abuse. I’d rather stay away from it. But some people seem to beg for abuse. Kayinmaine seems to be one. Her statements are clearly meant to draw fire. She doesn’t even attempt to be reasonable. I’m sure you’ve seen my thread over at her place? I was reasonable and polite and they still jumped all over me. I asked a few questions and eventually Kayinsane just decided she can’t handle the truth and banned me. So much for the ‘free speech’ crowd?

    “Because I spend too much time going to the mountain instead of having the mountain come to me. I like to debate”

    Well, you are better than most for making a good conversation. I have a few lefties as friends, we don’t always agree, but like I said- should that stop us from being friends/friendly? I think it’s shallow of a person to only surround themselves with like minded people. It can be more fun/interesting/educational to have a variety of friends/associates.

    “Or go there right now and try Elroy’s new super-quick quiz! No waiting!”

    I’m scared now! Is this the ‘Are you a Democrat or Stupidpublican’ kind of quiz?

  14. frznagn says:

    This post is getting way to long! I do enjoy the chat and I apologize for not properly addressing each issue so I’ll just touch on the few that I like.

    “What does that mean? ”

    It could mean many things. We could outsource all computer chips but then we’d have a national security problem. I know many things can be sent out of the country for economic advantages, but we can’t ship every job overseas. What will we do? What skills will be lost because they aren’t done here? Lots of questions, you get the point.

    “It depends on the government.” & “I certainly don’t trust the ‘market’,”

    It all depends on where you are and what the rules are. I can agree with both.

    “The left don’t like it at all – the left would much rather see people have jobs and productive lives.”

    I agree with this but for some odd reason, in this country its a bit different. I’ve seen too many people that don’t want to work and just live off government handouts and they tend to be the liberal ones. Maybe liberals in your country are different?

    “Bingo! Are you sure you ain’t no de-mo-crat?”

    Well, according to Kayinsane, I’m a flaming neocon. I think she deals in absolutes. Either you’re voting for Obama, or you’re a flaming neocon that deserves to die a horrible death. Like I said, the last ‘political’ test I took put me in the Libertarian category. Unlike others, I can think outside the box. Maybe that’s why I confuse you. You expect or assume that I’m like the typical righty. As I’ve said before, I’ve adopted my beliefs by myself, I didn’t get the party memo.

    “That doesn’t mean you have to give it to them.”

    True, but sometimes I’m weak or in a bad mood. I’m not perfect.

    “What’s up? Do you want compensation?”

    Why would you think I want that? It never crossed my mind. Is this a lefty thing?

    “Sigh. It happens on both sides. No one has the monopoly on righteousness with this one.”

    Wow. I’ve said this (or something like it) so many times it’s not funny!

    “I try to be polite and reasonably intelligent.”

    Thanks. You’re better than most.

    “But I do have…you.”

    Ahh, a kleenex moment! 😛

    “Nah. But I’m still waiting for your answer!”

    I’m blind. I didn’t see any quiz.

  15. frznagn says:

    “But that doesn’t sit well with your professed Libertarianism ”

    Very few things are perfect. It’s perfectly normal to have conflicting views.

    “that’s what the WTO is all about.”

    Not everybody is in it.

    “Not very libertarian of you.”

    Sue me. 😛

    “You appear to be saying that people are poor because they are liberals.”

    You appear to have misunderstood me. Poor people will vote for the whichever pol will give them the most. Democrats are good for robbing the rich and giving to the poor. Why work for what you can get for nothing? When I first moved up here with a friend of mine, we both got jobs in the summer. Winter came and he quit his and I kept mine. He made more money on unemployment and the other programs than I did working. How do you think that made me feel? If I didn’t have morals, I would’ve quit so I could have more money. That’s what the problem is! Making more money when you’re unemployed!

    “This ‘people don’t want to work’ canard is tiresome.”

    Maybe, but I’ve seen enough first-hand to know that it’s still true. You can’t tell me what I see and experience first-hand is false. Alaska is different than the rest in many ways. You obviously haven’t done your research about this place. And if you have, it’s still possible to miss certain things.

    “I suggest you try before saying that it is a cushy ride, ”

    See above. Besides, I don’t think you understand our system/people as well as you think. I’ve known my share of people that refuse to get paid more just because they don’t want to lose State benefits. Again, first-hand knowledge trumps what you read. You can tell me your city sucks more than any, but if I talk to the nice folks at the Chamber of Commerce (or something similar), then I’m willing to bet all I’ll hear are nice things. I’d believe you more than them.

    “Me neither!”

    Dang, we’re both left out of the loop! It’s not because we’re ugly, right??? 😛

    “And give up the high moral ground.”

    I don’t claim to have the best morals or that I’ve been a saint. But I don’t believe in hurting people. Physically anyways.

    “Oh, just because you were moaning so much.”

    I don’t get it. Just because I’ll state something, it doesn’t mean I’m moaning, whining, or want compensation. Can’t I just mention something and have it be what it is? If I say that it took my scab over three months to fall off my toe, then that is all I’m saying. I’m not asking for you to hand me kleenex, or send me a get-well card or anything like that. Funny how lefties act that way. And btw, that scab part is true. Check out my pics on it if you want. Since you’re so smart, why would mention it?

    “Look harder. The ‘Iran’ post. There’s prizes!”

    I read each word. I see nothing about a quiz. There are two links on the second comment. Nothing that looks like a quiz.

    This is the complete text from your post:
    Did Iran this about the USA?

    ‘Hopefully the…leadership will take a different position than the one they’ve taken in the past, which is basically, who cares what the free world says, we’re going to — we’ll go our own way.’

    Did the USA say this about Iran?

    ‘Human rights are being extensively violated…setting up secret prisons, abducting persons, trials and secret punishments without any regard to due process, extensive tappings of telephone conversations, intercepting private mail and frequent summons to police and security centers have become commonplace and prevalent.’

    Answers to the comments section please…
    Nope. Nothing about a quiz.

  16. frznagn says:

    “Or are you a protectionist libertarian?”

    I’d settle for ‘American’. ‘Alaskan’ can work too. Or ‘vet’.

    “What’s your point?”

    I thought it was obvious. You can’t follow the ‘rules’ when you deal with someone outside of it. Things change.

    “Oh ho! Defiant in your inconsistency!”

    No. That was my humor. Check the symbol to the right.

    “‘Robbing’ is a tad emotive, no? It’s not robbery – it’s a fair and equitable distribution of resources.”

    Yes, but it fits the bill. “fair and equitable” is debatable. Those that are taxed the most would most likely be the biggest complainers. Those that receive the most will probably not complain. If I recall correctly, there isn’t anything in our Constitution that states we are allowed to redistribute money. Sure, we do, but if you’re a strict Constitutionalist you’d say it’s illegal.

    “If you are getting paid less than welfare then I suggest that your problem is less with welfare and more with the level of wages you got.”

    Yup. I was in the South in an area with lots of retirees. Nobody wants to pay above minimum wage because of the supply/demand issue when it comes to labor. Lots of workers with retirement income willing to work for minimum wage to make a few extra bucks. It makes it difficult to support your family on peanuts. My wife was the ‘manager’ at a restaurant and all she got was ten cents over minimum wage. I even met someone that had been working at the same place for 9 years and was only making .65 over minimum wage. Sad, eh? I can thank good ol’ Bill Clinton for downsizing me.

    “There should not be the situation where people that work hard can still not afford a house, of food, or whatever. Period. If that means ‘robbing’ the rich, then so be it. They won’t miss it. Since when was greed an attribute?”

    First part- I agree. Robbing the rich is not a solution. Yes, they may miss it. The definition of ‘rich’ varies quite a bit. I might qualify on being ‘rich’. Depends on who you ask. I’m not sure what you mean by greed being an attribute. In general, greed is bad. There may be situations where it is beneficial. Just look at charity auctions, like the one J.K. Rowling had for her book. If I had Bill Gates’ money, I would’ve had that book. And the charity would’ve had much more money. I get something I want, the charity gets something they want. Win-win.

    “Whoever said I was talking about Alaska? ”

    Well, you didn’t say you were, but you didn’t say you weren’t. I try to use examples I’m most familiar with. It’s much better that way.

    “Again, maybe it’s because the tax burden is heaviest on the working and lower middle classes?”


    And again, why are benefits for people with jobs even necessary? Because employers are not paying them enough.”

    To attract and retain the best people. Employers may not pay them enough, but a company with a large number of workers can get a better price for insurance and other benefits than a single person can. I like to look at it as a motivational factor. If you have an unskilled job that pays little with few benefits, and you see someone with a professional job with lots of benefits….

    What should you do?
    1. Complain that life is not fair? (It’s not, get over it.)
    2. Demand that he be taxed more so you can have a better life. (Why is it owed to you?)
    3. Work harder/get an education and get that job yourself.

    I think it should be #3. Poverty sucks. Been there, got the t-shirt and had to sell it for food. I worked my arse off to get somewhere better. If I can do it with all my problems, then I’m sure most other people can do the same. It’s all about the motivation.

    “Wrong. I’ve been around a bit meself, champ.”

    Well sonny, I won’t tell you what you witness with your own eyes is wrong. If you tell me that old women with large purses almost always steal from restaurants by putting silverware or condiments into their purse, and that you see this with your own eyes, then who am I to say you are wrong. Your experiences are different than mine. We can say different things and still both be right.

    “Um, I hate to break it to you but…”

    Doh! Wait a sec, I haven’t seen your pic bucko…. 😛

    “Does that make us a movement?”

    I dunno, but I had one a few hours ago. 😛

    “Settle down!”


    “See those question marks?”

    Ahh, questions and quizzes are two different animals. I was looking for those multiple choice thingys that we love so much over here.

  17. frznagn says:

    Various comments from Elroy:

    Then I can only assume that you are not a strict constructionist .

    Still good to know you are not one of those constructionist dinosaurs.

    then you really are a protectionist par excellence!

    I mean, you sound like a bit of a protectionist.

    Are you sure you ain’t no de-mo-crat?

    Not very libertarian of you.

    You sure don’t think much like a libertarian

    Indeed it is, you libertarian protectionist, you!

    Or are you a protectionist libertarian?

    A free-market libertarian protectionist nationalist? Well, that clears it up.

    Actually, you sound more like a mercantilist, and a confused one at that.

    It appears that you’re trying to put me in a box. Forget about it. I don’t mind having a discussion with someone, but if I want to be psychoanalyzed then I’ll go see a shrink.

    Internet rules:
    #9- Will be implemented if you continue psychoanalyzing me.
    #11- Currently implemented.
    #27- Don’t make me use this one.
    #31- Ditto.
    #25- This one has gone on too long.


  18. frznagn says:

    “I’m merely trying, through some gentle ribbing, to pin you down to some sort of consistent position”

    Why? Why does it matter? Besides, I feel that I’m consistent. I believe in rules and there are exceptions to rules. Does that confuse you?

    “I suggest you lighten up and cop it on the chin.”

    Considering your response to the internet rules, I’ll say the same about you.

    “For my part, it looks like all the off-the-shelf ideologies have some fatal flaws in some regard”

    Just about everything has pros and cons. Maximize pros and minimize cons.

    “what we need to do is construct a psot-modern reality that takes what works and what doesn’t”

    Whatever we agree on will be meaningless. Getting everybody on our bandwagon would be too time consuming.

    “that the economy serves us and that we don’t serve the economy”

    Hmm, interesting. Sounds like someone wants freebies. Yes, sit back and have the economy serve me. I don’t have to work. Nope. I’m too important.

    “and that we must concentrate on what is most effective over what is most efficient. ”

    Another either or situation, eh? I think it needs to be the best blend of the two.

    “what’s all this ‘Internet rules’ malarkey?”

    Don’t ask me, I didn’t make them.

    “I’ve never signed up for them”

    Neither did I. I’m willing to bet that you didn’t sign up for the rules in the country where you were born. When did they get you to sign the contract stating you will follow the rules? This may come as a shock to you, but you won’t find my signature on the Declaration of Independence. That’s right! I don’t have my signature on any of the important founding documents! But yet, I’m bound by them. Odd, eh? If you don’t like the rules, then change them or go elsewhere.

    “but I have no idea what you are talking about. ”

    Try that ‘Google’ thingy. If you can’t find it, then I’ll post them.

    “I don’t recognize them and I don’t see why I should be expected to be bound by them.”

    Words of a rebel. Sounds like someone can’t conform very well.

    “Who wrote them? Who ratified them? Who made them law? ”

    Don’t know*3. And it doesn’t matter. It is what it is.

    “Why wasn’t I asked?”

    You’re not important enough.

    “What’s that switch over there for?”

    It’s used to control the flow of electricity. You can close the switch and electricity will flow. If you open it, then it will stop flowing.

    “Get over yourself, Frznagan”

    I’d have to be full of myself before I get over myself. Therefore, I can’t do.

    “what happened to be personal liberty?”

    It’s here in the good U S of A! Why live in Down Blunder when you can live here! 😛

    “What happened individuality?

    The Borg took it away. Get over it.

    “How come arbitrary regulation is now OK?”

    Arbitrary decision making made it so.

    “Since when did the rugged rough and tumble of the Interwebs become a police state?”

    It’s always been controlled. Haven’t you ever heard of the Great Firewall of China? What about Carnivore? Or the ultra-secret Brass Orb?

    Anyhowz, my son is heading of to your country in a few hours. World Youth Day with the Pope. You are going to visit the Pope, right???

  19. frznagn says:

    “know thine enemy.”

    If I’m your enemy then stop posting here. Do not come back. I have no use for enemies here.

    “If I am going to argue politics with you, it helps me to know where you stand on some issues. ”

    Is that all you want to do is ‘argue’. Again, arguing for arguments sake is stupid. If that’s what you want, go elsewhere.

    “That it what I’m trying to do. You appear, however, to be a little slippery…”

    Ok, thanks.

    “My challenge is to change the world one mind at a time.”

    It appears that you only wish to change the mind of others, not your own. A bit egotistic, eh?

    “No, but you posted them, and so therefore it is not unreasonable to assume that you endorse them.”

    Sorry, wrongo. I post about Obama a lot and I DON’T endorse him. Stating another persons/groups rules does not mean I endorse it. If I state Mormons don’t drink, then am I saying I don’t drink? Nope. Or that you shouldn’t drink?Nope. Or that it is a good rule to have? Nope. A fact is just that, a fact. Live with it.

    “From where do the ‘Laws of the Internet’ draw theirs?”

    Actually, the ‘internet rules’ was just a joke. If you did your research on it you’d find that out and get a good laugh on it! LOL! Too funny. Don’t take life too serious, have some fun once in a while! You sure got your knickers in a twist over a joke.

    “Google, huh? Radical stuff. OK, here goes…nope, can’t see ‘em.”

    You didn’t look hard enough. Took about 10 seconds and here is your link:


    “I’m a maverick baby, I live by my own rules!”

    A maverick ehi? Guess you’d vote for McCain then?? 😛

    “thought I was supposed to be a brainwashed drone! ”

    Shh. I’m not supposed to tell you, but you already are.

    “No no no, not THAT switch! The other one! ”

    Whew! A sense of humor! I had just about lost hope* in you. Glad you changed*.

    *Hope and Change are registered trademarks of ObamaGod.

    “How’s that PATRIOT Act going? Department of Homeland Security? Domestic warrantless wiretaps?”

    It’s great! Especially since Obama supports* them!

    *Past and future tense applies. He will like them if he becomes President. Wait and see.

    “Why live there when you can live here?”

    I should apologize for disparaging your country. I just couldn’t resist the wordplay. I’m sure it’s a real nice country and a great place to live.

    “Who is the Borg? And why did he take it? When?”

    You’re kidding, right?

    “but Brass Orb? Please, tell me more… ”

    SHHHH! We’re not to discuss this any further. Carnivore will catch it.

    “We look forward to welcoming him to the Socialist People’s Democratic Republic of Australistan.”


    “we have socialized medicine, which means that the streets are littered with the rotting corpses of he dead and dying citizens unable to access hospitals,”

    Oh, you’re just like the rest then. Somehow I thought you’d be different.

    “Personally, I don’t go to the shops now without my trusted Howizter mounted on the Australistan Bushmaster MRAP which we all drive these days.”

    Want. Wait…. NEED! 😛

    “and that we are not, get this, allowed to wear T-Shirts that might upset the delicate sensibilities of your offspring and his buddies. What was I saying about a functioning democracy?”

    Et tu Elroy?

    “And shouldn’t you be philosophically in conflict with a state-funded junket such as this? ”

    It’s not my state. But look at it this way, Christians are trying to ‘save’ you, not kill you. We wish to live in peace but some people just have nothing better to do then find ways to kill us. Odd. I would think that if we were that bad and Allah was that powerful, then he’d just kill us off.

    “Anyhoo, seen one pope, seen them all…”

    Maybe, but I like the last one much better.

  20. frznagn says:

    “no animosity here. Okey-dokey?

    Ok. Sounds fine. But I’m not looking for a sparring partner. It would be nice to have someone on the left explain some things. But most of the time, it’s distract and call names. Not just here, other places as well. You’ve seen Liberaldude at Jenn’s site, right? He’ll post an insult, laugh and leave. How dare a lefty actually discuss the subject of a post!

    “I thought you did too.”

    I do. But I dislike the assumptions (yes, I’m guilty too) and words being put in my mouth.

    “I would think a healthy ego is a prerequisite… ”

    Ok, point taken. I don’t look at myself with an ego thing, mostly I try to point out a different perspective or just put my two cents in on a subject. As you may see, I don’t jump out and post everything that pisses me off. If I think something will be over-saturated and I can’t add to it then I’ll skip it. I don’t follow the herd.

    “There were 4,123,123 links to ‘Rules of the internet’, so thanks for clearing that up.”

    Sure, but the first one had all the information. Don’t make things more complicated than they are!

    “Why do y’all always vote for these guys?”

    Again, another assumption. I don’t. But a good reason could be this- people hire successful people to run their companies because it’s a good indicator that they will be successful. I’d rather vote for a successful business person for President than someone who’s never had to balance the books or make tough decisions. Community Organizer? LOL!

    “Really, you can’t make this stuff up…”

    Sure you can. Ever watch those movies that come out of Hollywood?

    “Free? Brave? Not any more.”

    Your opinion. But since you don’t live here…

    “Even if you are, geographically speaking, in Canada.”

    Really? This used to be owned by Russia.

    “No. Who is the Borg?”

    You serious? Check out Star Trek, The Next Generation. Interesting stuff, you’ll like it.

    “Uh oh! Land of the which? Home of the who? How’s that Constitution going?”

    Great, except for those activist judges. This was humor. I thought it was so obvious that you’d catch it but it looks like I’m wrong.

    “and dying citizens unable to access hospitals is, er, yours. ”

    Really? Is that why Canada sends it’s people over here for care? To die in our streets. That doesn’t sound very caring of them.

    “Probably something to do with you tring to kill them.”

    Nope, not trying to kill anyone. Our country doesn’t want to kill anyone. ‘cept maybe those terrorist trying to kill us. Save your rant on this, I’ve heard it before.

  21. frznagn says:

    “it looked like you wanted to engage in a frank and thorough exchange of views. ”

    Sparring and talking about things are different.

    “What would you like to know? ”

    Ahh, a long list. One thing at a time.

    “at least you are civil and attempt to mount a cogent rebuttal.”

    Keep that up and you’ll ruin my street cred.

    “There are fruitcakes on both sides of the divide, ”

    Too many too. Waaaaaay too many!

    “I feel exactly the same way about…me.”

    Uh oh. My polar twin.

    “You don’t? but you said before you did!”

    I did before I didn’t. Where have I heard that before? The key word was ‘always’.

    “For instance, a boss can, for better or worse, sack workers that they no longer need or want, but that option isn’t available to the president”

    Wrong! Remember the 93 US Attorney’s that Clinton fired? And the flack when Bush did the same thing?

    “He can’t deport them and he can’t shoot them”

    I wouldn’t be money on that! Check this out!:http://www.newsfollowup.com/bushfortune.htm

    “Community organizers would make much better Presidents because they understand ”
    Understanding and doing are two different things.

    “No, y‘see, the funny thing about fiction is that it has to have a basis in fact – it has to be credible.”

    Not really, but it does help. Lots of sci-fi with bogus facts!

    “Don’t start with the ‘You don’t live here’ stuff, it insults both our intelligence.”

    I was trying to state that you’re not living under it so you don’t know exactly how it is. If reading about something gives you all that you need to know, then you’ll save lots of money- because you won’t have to go to Hawaii to see how great it is, you just have to read about it. No need to visit the Great Barrier Reef, just pick up a book and that’s everything! Reading is fine, but I prefer seeing/experiencing things to get the full effect.

    “It looks like it should be in Canada.”

    Nah, they should be in us. We protect them, and import oodles of stuff to them.

    “Uh oh! Trekkie alert! My phaser is on ‘stun’ ”

    Great. My Nerdar is going off.

    “I get it – you are calling Scalia, Roberts and and Thomas ‘activist’. Hilarious. LOL”

    I was referring to the lower courts.

    “Anyhoo, maybe some cashed Canuks do venture over a border in order to blow the house on a new hip,”

    Sounds like you’re minimizing again. Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,300939,00.html And besides, I don’t see people dying in the streets here. The emergency rooms cannot turn someone away just because they can’t pay. Anybody can go there for care if they want. Therefore, there is no reason to die on the streets.

    “but the Yanks do take cynical advantage of Canada’s cheap drugs.”

    Saving money is evil now. Thanks for clarifying that up. Lots of evil people in the world then.

    “Canada and Australia both have a higher life expectancy than the US,”

    I don’t think the health care is a big factor in that. I’d say our gang violence does a number on that statistic. Add in automobile fatalities, cancer….

    “or people going bankrupt for having used it.”

    I know someone (used to live with us for a bit) that refuses to work and gets treated for her problems. Some of the bills come here, but as far as I can tell, she doesn’t pay them. Makes no effort. Expects others to take care of her. You must be proud of her.

    “If health care isn’t a basic human right, what is?”

    This is a long discussion that I’ll save for later. Should my ‘rights’ cost other people money? If I felt that having a computer is a ‘basic human right’, then does that mean my government should buy me one? Who determines what it is?

    “In Iraq, people who are not terrorists, insurgents, Al-queda operatives, the boogy-man, commies or any other designated enemy of the state die everyday.”

    My heart bleeds for them. I don’t care if Al-queda dies. Or the boogy-man. Innocent people, sure. But they can stop fighting and people will stop dying. Simple! If you haven’t noticed, not all deaths are aimed at us, or because we do something. They’re killing each other too. Just like here in this country. I can’t stop them either.

    “(Starship Enterprise now leaving conservative constellation at warp factor 16 heading for Planet Sane) ”

    Oh, a round-trip?

  22. frznagn says:

    “I shall post on ScrewLiberals ”

    It won’t help. It’s not like I’m one of the big guys.

    “John McCain.”

    That was John Kerry. Close. I can see the confusion.

    “So you have voted Democrat? ”

    Yes. Like I said, I’ll vote for the one I like, or the lesser of two evils.

    “Care to readjust your statement in that context?”

    No. You did state the government “can’t fire”. They can.

    “Community organizers organize, therefore he is doing. And understanding.”

    Fine. The next time a paper delivery boy is running I’ll run out and cast my vote because he’s organized, doing something and understanding things. Nice low standards.

    “The PATRIOT Act is not. ”

    I disagree. I can read about the Holocaust, but it won’t compare to actually seeing it, living it, smelling it. You can watch those old WWII movies about how the German’s ‘knew everything’ about your personal life (The sound of music comes to mind), but to actually have someone at your door saying it… it would be a far greater emotional event. Living it is important.

    “Who from?”

    Anyone and everyone. Isn’t it called the ‘Findlandization Effect’ or something like that?

    “But does this mean you a fan the Mexico/USA/Canada trading bloc thang?”

    Not exactly for or against it. I personally haven’t seen a difference since it was enacted. Lots of laws are passed without an (mainly, direct) effect on your life.

    “what do the lower courts matter?”

    Everything. Lower courts set precedents as well.

    “By the time you’ve gotten to the ER, it’s too late.”

    It depends on what it is. But yes, prevention is much better and cheaper.

    “Make no mistake, US health policy kills.”

    I’d say it’s a set of factors that include US policy. Or the abuse of it.

    “Americans who resist any kind of social medicine model are happy to take advantage of Canada’s. ”

    It’s not that. The drug companies overcharge us over here. That’s one of the reasons the meds cost so much. Canada has different rules on the pricing structure. Heck, you can buy the same med for your dog/cat and it’s cheaper!

    “but if it does then what does that say about the society y’all have created?”

    I can create wonderful work of art. And then someone can smash it over your head. Point is, is it the creation of something that is bad, or the abuse of it? Some groups like to abuse.

    “She should never have been placed in that position in the first place.”

    She has epilepsy. She could take pills but chooses not to. We just bought her some anti-biotics week and she hasn’t taken them. I spend my money on her and she just lets the pills sit on the counter!!! This is HER fault. My wife offered to pay her to do some simple accounting work at home and she REFUSED! She said she didn’t want to be typing on the computer all day. But she’ll chat online with her friends all day! If she can type to her friends, she can do the same work my wife and I do!!!

    “it will effect her credit rating ”

    She has no rating. Never pays anything as far as I can tell. She actually said to us ‘I’m used to getting what I want, even if I have to steal it.’ Classy, eh? Oh, and she’s 21.

    “Still, as it suits your agenda for them to doing so, you are happy to believe it. How convenient. ”

    I complain about what I see, and what bothers me. Especially if it hits home. Nothing convenient about it when I have to support someone else.

    “Oh, good. When?”


    “Yes. And their rights should cost you money.”

    This is where we disagree. It’s a complicated issue, some things should should cost another. But these should be few.

    “It is foolish, if not naive, to think that the only killing going on in Iraq ”

    I did state “not all deaths are aimed at us, or because we do something. They’re killing each other too. ” It kinda negates your point. I’ve already admitted to what your trying to say.

    “Once again, beware the law of unintended consequences and be careful what you wish for.”

    Exactly, it goes both ways!!

    “and generally boldly go where no leftie has gone before.”

    How about Mexico. That place is a hotbed of drugs, killing and corruption. It’s gotta be run by the conservatives, right? How about you go over there and fix it so people don’ t have to risk their lives crossing the border. Fix Mexico so they don’t have to flee! You can do it! Yes you can!!!

  23. frznagn says:

    “No, it was McCain. Check this out:”

    Flip-flops are another issue. Notice my key words: “I did before I didn’t. Where have I heard that before?” I was stating that someone actually said words that were contrary. Here is what Kerry said: “Kerry complicated matters with his now infamous words, “I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.” Notice the similarity of the two. Saying I was before I was against. This is completely different than a flip-flop.

    “61 flip-flops by this singularly unqualified old curmudgeon.”

    Maybe so. We can slice and dice all day on what constitutes a flip-flop but I don’t have the time. There are times when a ‘flip-flop’ is good. Yes, I use the term loosely. One could find out their position was flawed or that new information changed the old. In those cases, it may be justifiable. I’d rather take a justifiable flip-flopper over a liar any day! Check out Obama’s 69 lies: http://www.antiobama.net/2008/07/obamas-list-of.html

    “On paper the PATRIOT Act looks bad, and I’m sure it looks bad to those on the receiving end of it too. ”

    As for me, I haven’t seen any difference. As for the ‘receiving end’, if that means the terrorists then I don’t care if it looks bad to them.

    “Americans never lived communism”

    Not here, but Americans have lived abroad and therefore can experience it firsthand. Good enough.

    “Who? Who is going to invade Canada? Greenland?”

    Like I said, no one will invade them because of our relationship. We could invade North Korea but do you think China would sit by and do nothing? Same concept. If we were small, powerless countries then Canada would be more attractive to those that like to take over countries.

    “Not NAFTA, silly – the FTAA! Try to keep up!”

    I am. Both apply. Silly boy. Think outside the box for a change!

    “Which are overturned by the Supremes.”

    Only if it goes that far. Not everything does!

    “The abuse of US policy? How? By who? And what ‘other factors?’”

    Must I explain everything to you? Lot’s of people manipulate, control or otherwise use the laws to their best advantage. I was listening to someone talk about Oxygen Concentrators that Medicaid/Medicare rents for about $100 a month. Maximum rental time is 72 months. So a patient can get one for 72 months and Medicare/Medicaid pays the $100 a month rental fee for a lifetime total of $7,200. But you can go online a buy one for about $600. Lesse, if you’re smart, you’ll realize that tons of money is wasted on renting them. It’d be much cheaper to actually purchase them! If you don’t catch it, then I want to rent you a few things here. I’d say someone is abusing/manipulating the system. But hey, since it’s the government paying, no one cares! That’s the beauty of social healthcare! If the money was out of your pocket, then you’d care!!!

    “The abuse of US policy? How? By who? And what ‘other factors?’”

    Nope. You fail to understand the point being made. You prefer to find the differences in the analogy. Try to seek out the point I’m making. No analogy is perfect. It’s not my fault if you choose to be obtuse.

    “What kind of shelter are you running there? ”

    My wife likes to help out people.

    “This is a popular right-wing tactic – to use isolated and individual cases and apply them to the population in general as way to prove their point.”

    I complain about a larger issue and pointed out a single case that I’m familiar with. Nothing wrong with that. I prefer talking about things that I have direct knowledge and experience with. Nothing wrong again. I am not saying ALL people are like her. Everyone is different. But there are times where you’ll see lots of similarities and come to a belief that certain things are related. How much? It varies.

    “But to suggest that just because someone you know has done X that everyone is doing it is patently ridiculous. ”

    That’s not my point. You misunderstand. But you also don’t look at the point I’m trying to make and comment on what I see/say. You find some way to distract from the issue and talk about that. How about actually addressing what I’m talking about?

    “but I suggest you do some more digging to find out WHY she feels the way she does.
    Compassion! Understanding! Sympathy! Empathy!”

    We have plenty of the above, trust me. You have no idea what we’ve done to help those around us. But I don’t like it when I spend money on someone’s pills just so they can sit on the counter. Compassion for what? That they’d rather stay sick? When someone wastes my money then I’m not happy. You wouldn’t like it if I was wasting yours.

    “What you do is conflate the specific with the general. ”

    And you avoid and distract. Facts at hand are meaningless.

    “I’m waiting…”

    I’m working a job and a half. Give me a break. My wife is going in for surgery this week. Kinda busy.

    “So what should they be?”

    I spoke in a general sense. I don’t have a pre-made list that I can just copy/paste.

    “I’ve told you what I think they should be – breathing, drinking, shelter,
    eating, excretion, personal security from crime, financial security, health and well-being, safety net against accidents/illness and the adverse impacts thereof, education – so what do you think these ‘few’ should be? What would you leave out of my list?”

    It’s not so simple as that.

    Breathing: Last I knew, I don’t pay anybody to breathe. However, if you want to talk about pollution controls and standards… that’s different.

    Drinking: Free booze for everyone! Party time! The bar never closes here!!

    Shelter: Yes, make mine at the Waldorf Astoria.

    Eating: Huh, whaddya say? Pass the lobster and crab legs.

    Excretion:: Find a tree and fertilize it.

    personal security from crime: I’ll take Mr. T!!! Everyone can now have their own bodyguard!!!

    health and well-being: Personal Massage Therapists? Cool!! I’d be a lot healthier with a private Nurse! Don’t forget the ‘happy ending’

    safety net against accidents: Every thing will be foolproof. And non-functional. Nerf homes? Sure! Nerf furniture? Sure!!!

    education: Well, now that I have three Doctorates, I’d like to get another. Can’t work while I’m in school!!!

    My point? Anything you ask for can be perverted/abused. Just because the government should provide shelter, it doesn’t mean you’ll like it or be happy in it. Lot’s of rat infested Projects in this country. No thanks, I’d rather have the home I live in. With government running and paying for things, they’ll have to make the decision on what is ‘right for you’. No thanks!

    “How does it go left? How does it go both ways in this instance? Please explain.”

    ‘Be careful what you wish for.’ Hmm, this applies ONLY to one side of the political spectrum. Seriously, you can’t be that obtuse and dense!

    “Um, right, actually, it is run by conservatives.”

    So they run from one to go to another illegally. Yeah, makes sense now.

    “How about you do it?”

    I’d rather fix my own country. You however, seem to want to fix this country. So, why stop here? Go to Mexico! Go to Sudan! Go to the Crapistans!

    “After all, the Mexican situation is a direct result of US policy. ”

    Right. Everything is our fault. Glad you cleared that one up! Which policies?

    “so vote for change”

    I’m voting for McChange. Mr. HopeAndChange isn’t very specific. Says he’ll fix the world but doesn’t tell me the price tag. Somehow I don’t think we can afford to. Even pre-Bush. Our one little country that’s a bit more than 200 years old is going to fix the world with countries that have been around millenia longer than ours? Riiiiight. I’ve got a device that turns sand into fresh water if you’d like to buy it.

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